I guess i have to revise some of my comments ...

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: : As You p[oint out, as does Frank , the ultimate limitation seems to be the oxygen deliver in the activated muscles. The point I like to make is, that the limit may be not always in this muscle , but on the way to this muscle. Ex. Altitude could be a limiting factor for peformance ( lower Oxygen partial pressure. ) : Yes, but that is limiting the same for everyone. Breathing more does not get more oxygen in the blood at altitude. : : Summary : If we work with independant pedals , ( and we like them very much )the goal is to produce a test result at the end, where there is no difference between :Max HR , LBP HR , Max Lac, Max Watt. LBP Watt, Recovery speed of Lac. PO2 and all the small tests we can do as hobby coaches. : : Once I achieve this , than the athlete does not feel a difference between the nornmal and the independant pedals any more. : The problem with getting to "no difference" between the muscles is most of the competitors out there now have 10-20 years of serious exercise using the antigravity muscles and most PC users have 1 to 3 years on the HF's and other muscles. It is not possible to have "no difference" between these muscles until the new muscles have had enough time to mature as aerobic power machines. : : Point 4 on Franks replay makes an other interesting statement. " I see no benefit to ever train on regular or rotor cranks. " : : I believe that at least for the moment there may be some problem for a MTB guy to race on independant pedals. Jumping over trees , standing on the pedals with your legs both on the bottom and so on may be stll a little bit challanging to say the least. : I agree when there is a need to maintain technical skills that cannot be performed on PC's then one needs to trainon regular cranks. But, from the point of view of become a stronger pedaler, I cannot think of a single benefit to using regular cranks in training. : : : Now once I have an optimal push / pull force , resp. eliminate all the " weakness" in my active motion and the coordination, the next step could perhaps be , how do I eliminate the weak " force distribution point on that circle produced by the striked situation of the pedal construction. Thats' where the people on Rotor crank where working on. : : See our small study on the web site about TE ( Training equipment ) and RE Racing equipment. : I don't know when one ever reaches "optimal" push/pull etc. etc. Especially, as I mentioned above, it may take many years to fully train these new muscles AND retraining of brain unconscious coordination. Whle Rotors do seem to offer some advantage even to the PC trained athlete, the difficulty in my mind seems to come from how much time needs to be spent training on them to get race ready because if one is training on Rotors, further development of the HF's, etc. probably stops. : : : Thanks to Frank Days invention ( independant ) pedals we actually collectied 100 dreds of datas in the field of cycling coordination. A lot of the measured information often conficts with , what we learned , and it is sometimes hard to go back to your athletes a week after you convinced them about something and say , hey guys we may be wrong. : : The only way you are able to dio this if you not coach the athlete , but think with them together and staedy have to courage to change and try. : : : One reason for development stagnation is repetition on already done stresses. : : Last but not least I hope we may get some responde about Franks lactate buffering with bicarbonate and the question whether there may be other means of lactate removal ( resp. lactic acid metabolisme . ) : Lactic acid is only removed by metabolism. The immediate effects of it (pH changes) are removed by buffering. If it were not for buffering, we would pretty much have to stop exercising as soon as we started producing the first lactic acid molecule. One can sustain a small constant production of lactate as long as one remains below the ability of the body to metabolize it. Anything more and the buffering ability will become overwhelmed and eventually the body is forced to stop.

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