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     Robh Senior Member Username: Robh Post Number: 504 Registered: 12-2007 |
DAVE'S EXHAUSTIVE TESTS WITH POWER METERS THE DEFINITIVE RESULTS OF POWER METER TESTS BY DAVE LLOYD OVER AN 18 MONTH PERIOD…. I think that first of all, a little background information is called for… I have always been very open minded about everything new that has come along in my coaching career. I am still very active as a cyclist myself and I truly do love innovation (which is why I hate the UCI with a passion. But that’s another story!) . I am always on the look out for any product that I feel might aid the performance of my athletes and the big advantage I have over some is that I can still try each of these products out on myself and draw my own conclusions in an open minded way, and with 40 years of bike riding and racing experience behind me.. As most of you know, I have always worked with Heart Rate as a training tool in all my coaching and my results using this particular method have been extremely successful to say the least! Over the years I was for ever being told by the coaching cognoscente things such as “You should be working with Power meters!”, “Power is the only way to go!”, “Power is the future”, and “Power is the way forward!” etc. etc. etc. With all this external pressure, I felt it only reasonable to at least give “Power Meters” a real try and enter the experiment with a completely open mind. I would personally try EVERY Power Meter on the market and really test them all, however long that process took me. I could then reach a completely unbiased conclusion on just how effective each of the different products were and , having no “vested interest” in selling the products, I could reach the unbiased conclusions I was aiming for… So the stage was set … That is the background to what now follows, and over the last 18 months I have been working with Power meters. But now for the results of my 18 months with these training “tools”! The first Meter I used was the ERGOMO Bottom Bracket (cost around £1,100)… I think the least said about this piece of “equipment” the better. It was just the worst power meter of all the ones I tried. When I first opened the box and looked at the Bottom Bracket, it looked like the very cheap “FAG” B/B, and I could hardly turn the axle with my fingers , it was just so tight. It would have taken about 20 Watts just to get the thing turning! But I wasn’t deterred and set the Training Tool up on my training bike… Right from the start I had my doubts about this particular P.M. as it only measured the power produced by one leg (the left leg), doubled this reading and then took the average power produced! It took no account of the fact that your right leg may be the stronger. Everyone has one leg stronger than the other, so immediately the results were “scewed” as far as I was concerned, and did not fill me with confidence that the power readings were accurate enough …This was not the worst thing about the meter , however, and the worst feature was that the Bottom Bracket let water in when it rained hard (which it tends to do quite frequently around here!) and as soon as this happened, the equipment just stopped working. Complete frustration with the Ergomo was soon reached and I just gave up with it. I believe the Company has since ceased trading!! The next Power Meter was the top of the range Power Tap Hub. The wireless 2.4 version (cost around £1,500 built into a wheel). The first draw back with this as far as I was concerned was the fact that you were stuck with ONE wheel. So did you use this for just training, which is what I would do anyway, as I would never use a Power Meter for racing?… But I know some, if not most athletes use Power Meters to race with too, and so this produces an immediate problem…. Another problem I was finding with these Power Meters was when I was set a training session where I had to produce a particular power range on a climb. As soon as I got out of the saddle, the head unit was too far back for me to see what the power I was trying to work to and I found this very frustrating…. The next problem was the fact that the 2.4 Power Tap broke down FOUR TIMES… Twice through water getting through inadequate seals and blowing the computer up and twice the hub just stopped “talking” to the head unit for no good reason that I could ascertain.. In the end, I just became so frustrated with the interruptions to the training, I just decided to draw a line under the Power Tap experience and move onto the most expensive and “so called” BEST Power Meter of them all .. THE SRM SYSTEM… When I received my SRM cranks (cost between £2,500 to £3,200 !!) and got them installed onto my bike, I have to admit I was quite excited that at last I had the best system there was and this would be the revelation I needed and I would finally “SEE THE LIGHT!”… The installation, I have to admit, was very simple and I looked on this as a good sign! All seemed well and I started a daily training regime based loosely on the Hunter Allen workouts found in the book written by him and Andy Coggin…Let me just break away here and describe some of these sessions… I set different “ranges” of Power to work to and when interval training I set power based on my “Maximum Power” and my “Threshold Power”. Some of these ranges were quite specific and I found it difficult to keep the power constant. As soon as you let up at all on the pedals the power dropped alarmingly and I found that sometimes I would be riding with my breaks on, just to keep the power within the ranges prescribed for that day. I also found I had to keep checking , by looking down at the power readings on the head unit , which at times was just damned dangerous!! I also found the usual problem with the head unit “disappearing” every time I got out of the saddle too. One of the worst experiences I had though (and I have heard the same problem from several different athletes) was when I was doing some interval sessions based on what I had done in the past and should have been able to get through without TOO much of a problem. Of course these sessions were going to be hard, but I was always “up” for that. I DO know how to train hard !! I vividly remember a session some 2 months ago and I was due to start at what was an easily reached power which I would have to hold for 5 minutes, have 5 minute recovery and then step up the power for the next 5 minutes with another 5 minute recovery , and so on … I did my usual warm up and was psyched up for this session. I set off and try as I might , with my legs absolutely SCREAMING, I just could NOT reach the first 5 minute power output. I was really trying and it wasn’t going to happen. My head went down and as far as I was concerned the session was over before I had got the first interval done ! BUT, I just thought… “There is no way I am going this badly as I was flying last week and I am not going home with terrible morale !” I decided to attack my 20 minute lap and see what time I could produce around that. I did another warm up and just “went for it”… Surprise, surprise… I produced my third fastest time ever around the lap ! My morale was intact after all and I went home with a smile on my face and not the “failure” I could have imagined… This is one very good reason why I prefer to do 1 mile intervals or hill repeats and so on.. EVERYONE can do a 1 mile interval or a hill repeat and just time it… Then, even if it’s not quite as good as the last time you did the session, at least a session get’s DONE! To add to my woes, the SRM’s also broke down THREE times when the cranks just stopped “talking” to the head unit.. NOT good enough for such an expensive Training Tool.. I also found another niggle and that was the fact that the head unit didn’t have a battery monitor, so you had no idea how much battery life was left. On two occasions whilst doing some very hard intervals the head unit just went blank as the battery died on me.. That is just SO frustrating. I think maybe the latest versions do have this facility, so maybe that has been fixed, .. But I would have expected better from such a costly piece of kit… I really do hate to be so negative , but these are my own experiences with Power Meters and on several occasions I came back from hard training sessions in a really foul mood as things had gone wrong with the Meters , or I hadn’t reached the power I had been prescribed etc. etc. CONCLUSIONS…. I REALLY don’t wish to appear totally negative towards Power meters. I can see some benefit from working with Power in very limited circumstances (especially on the Track… where it’s a level playing field and easier to interpret the results from a power meter!) I also tend to think they haven’t yet produced an “ideal” Power Meter, but I have seen one which looks promising and is not yet in production … and as soon as it is, I will test that one .. NEVER SAY NEVER !!! BUT >>>> Power Meters are a very expensive training tool and many coaches have vested interest in these tools as they sell them off their websites and therefore are biased towards them before they start even if they work or not ! I’m not naming names or trying to point the finger, or even being negative here, because I can see the reasons for this, naturally, we all have to make a living !! The very bottom line is that I do not believe Power is the “be all and end all” of an athlete’s progress. It also takes a lot longer to work with Power meters as you have to “download” each training session to your “Cycling Peaks” Software and then, put them into a format you can send to me and then send the information you have produced … I then have to come up with a progressive training schedule based on those sessions. Not that this should be a restriction if you have unlimited time, but I know that most of my athletes have better things to do than download all their sessions and inevitably play around on the Computer with those results for ages!! I also do not believe that Power to Weight Ratio is the be all and end all either. I have one particular athlete who has quite a low Power to Weight Ratio and beats athletes with MUCH higher Power to Weight.. I would prefer to look at the athlete in a Holistic way and “mentor” that athlete as well as prescribe training sessions… I am TOTALLY convinced that performance on the bike is in the range of 65% psychological and 35% physiological… To sum up, I would say that personally I would rather work with Heart Rate as a training tool. It is so much simpler ( THAT’S MY CREDO….KEEP IT SIMPLE!!) and so much CHEAPER! How many of my athletes can afford £3,000 for a training tool ?? VERY FEW I can tell you. They would be far better off buying a piece of equipment that does actually give them an advantage… Having said all this, I realise these are my own opinions and that we are all different. Personally I will be sticking with Heart Rate Monitors. That is except for my athletes who have already invested in a Power meter and with them I am only too happy to work with Power. At least I now know a lot more about how it all works and have the Software to analyse their workouts… Dave Lloyd 12.03.09 (After 18 months research) http://www.davelloydcoaching.com/cycling -news-and-discussion/daves-exhaustive-te sts-with-power-meters | ||
| Philippe Junior Member Username: Philippe Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2010 |
Using SRM and Powertap for some years, I have never had any problems with them. Maybe I am just lucky. I think a lot of the powermeterusers get Coggan and Hunters book and start focussing solely on power, using WKO or Cyclingpeaks and working with 'powerzones' derived (calculated) from one 'holy' FTP that they think will be OK in every situation (indoor vs outdoor, climbing vs flat,...). Making things that simple guarantees commercial succes. All of the powermeters give you a lot of parameters, power being just one of them. Increasing the intensity of training will give you some instant improvement, but soon you will reach a plateau. Just my opinion. | ||
| Juerg Senior Member Username: Juerg Post Number: 2477 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Unfortunately" I have to agree with Philippe. He basically makes a perfect summary of reality. To sell something you need a big name behind and a simple solution and it works and that's great , and that's why power meter ideas and FTP works well , or 220 - age and % of heart rate zones. It is only one push on a button away to spit out training plans for 100 of clients and all are Happy and pay . Nevertheless power meters are a great tool as we can use them great in combination with Bio markers to see possible changes. As well using % of wattage are great to see possible changes in physiological sysytem,. The future really is to combine the great work by Coghan and Hunter with bio-markers and than we have the best of both sides. Anything , who goes towards ( religion ) is more believing than understanding and leads to blindness of possible changes and improvements. ( ( Training bible ) This is one of the big challanges in today's world. Is it possible to write a book as we have the risk , that when it is printed it may already have change many of the information we at the time where great but now have to be adjusted. | ||
| Philippe Junior Member Username: Philippe Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2010 |
Heart rate's role in training with Power (Allen Lim): http://www.saris.com/athletes/PermaLink, guid,5b125d33-e6ce-493e-adb6-c3d0d4b50f4 f.aspx 'Understanding the relationship between the two and being aware of the factors that can affect both are important to optimizing one's training' | ||
| Juerg Senior Member Username: Juerg Post Number: 2495 Registered: 04-2006 |
Philippe , Thanks for the nice input and yes very nicely written and as we can see a nice direction towards many of the discussion in our forum. The key is as he mentioned combining different bio markers and physical markers like speed , watt and so on and bring them together to have easy information on the weakest link at any given time. There is still the misconception between Watt and VO2 max or max HR . all of them have some info but all of them only tell us the picture of the full team human body. There is as we mentioned a team in the body existing of different members like heart , respiration and so onAs watt only tells the overall load on the team but not the part each team members adds to the overall picture, so does HR only tells the beats per minute but not the actual work of the heart, which is as he mentioned as well CO = SV x HR. And even to this the LVET is important to understand the different responses , why HR can some days not increase and in other days it can go up very easy. The main problem still is , that the majority of top coaches still don't are up to date and don't even know , that we can test very simply and live cardiac out put this days as well as stroke volume and even the actual reaction of the muscles to O2 trends over TSI % and trends of oxy and deoxy Hb . Visit us over the next few week as we will show many results of test done in California over the last 2 weeks. If a Plumber shows up n your house to fix a broken water line with a roll of Duct tape and a wire you will at least look funny and he may even be able to stop the leak but unlikley will you call him the next . If a top coach or exercise physiologist working with Pro teams shows up with a HR monitor and a Power meter you would be wondering as well of his small tool box for all the work needed to do a good job. A good plumber including a welding equipment will show up with a 150'000 plus truck and equipment to do a job. A full set of needed tools for a pro coach to do a decent job is below 50'000 dollar but ????? |