Post Number: 2730
|Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 12:20 pm: |
Here is a in-depth information from an established Test center chain.
I just like at least to discuss some ideas on here and hope people come back and discuss the other side of this ideas.
" Aerobic Threshold (Zone 1) - your aerobic threshold has the biggest impact on your performance in half marathon and marathon performances
Lactate Threshold (Zone 3) - your lactate threshold has the biggest impact on your 10K race time. It also acts as a limiting factor to the improvement of your aerobic threshold.
Speed at VO2max (Zone 5) - your VO2max has the biggest impact on your 1000m - 1500m performance. It also ultimately limits your ability to improve your aerobic threshold and lactate threshold
Let's start with the last part:
1000 - 1500 m are the once where VO2 max is the limitation.
Middle distance runner over this distance have great VO2 max but are far behind actual endurance VO2 max values like 5000 - 10000 m and or marathon runners.
The simple reason is, that still a big part of the time over 1000 m is in an ATP demand, which is so high, that the delivery of O2 dependent energy sources can't keep up with the ATP demand and you really still strong on the O2 independent energy sources.
Testing this time intervals you will have for 1000 - 15000 m do not show a real stimulation on max VO2 but rather a very great stimulus for TSI % drops. The biggest challenge in this discipline is less to bring the O2 in,as much more to bring the CO2 out and still being able to use O2 and lactate further.
The key here is MCT transporter rather than VO2 max and to believe the VO2 max is the limiter is an interesting point but I would see some test info's where they can stand behind this idea.
The two additional point are the once we discuss all over again.
1. How do you find an aerobic threshold and the lactate threshold.
If it is based on 2 and 4 mmol you know the answer and it may be time to review this ideas of testing.
So definition and how they find aerobic threshold would be nice to see.
Lactate threshold. Same here 4 mmol unlikely of any value anymore.
Individual lactate threshold or lactate steady state or OBLA. Well, if they do this testing congratulation as it will take a few hours and 2 - 3 days to have it properly done and for the price they ask that would be an unbelievable deal but a business , who would do this would be broken since long time ago.
So yes ,how do they find LT ?
last but not least. LT is not ( NOT ) a limiting factor. If LT exists , than it is a marker for a limiting factor as we know.
It is NOT the lactate , who limits you , it is a system behind who limits you and the Lactate is a marker , that one of the systems is at its limit.
last but not least .Making training intensity zones based on one single step test with classical lactate values really . Hmm how do they do that. Remember alone the problem of the nutritional state of a client.
What's the point to have the "golden standard " in compu trainer , when you have no standard at all on understanding the lactate values.
? here just for the sake of it the influence on different glycogen levels and the change in lactate values in a classical lactate test.
Now take the first curve from the left by 60 % performance ( about 2 mmol ) which they will take as the aerobic threshold from this client.
Now go to the last curve from the left and find the level of 2 mmol and look at the Peromance of the % on the base axis which is by about 85 %. Now play with 4 mmol or where you believe the incline from one dot to the next is more than 1 mmol and you make the conclusion of performance based on this idea of a lactate classical test.
Than consider a re-test and the variation and consider the ability to use a designate wattage level on any of this three lactate curves, which were all done on the same person in three days . Look when this was discussed 1987 YES 1/4 century back and it is hard to believe, that we still are there. with all what we know now. Even harder to believe is , that people pay a lot of money for that ?
Either we can discuss this properly or we may have to say. Hmmm perhaps it is time to look at other options. ?
Post Number: 2731
|Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 01:06 pm: |
woww fast response. Yes many different research on this here another one,who shows influence of glycogen situation on the lactate or here pyruvate level and the performance.
Now this shows you , that using the other idea of VO2 values have the same problem, as there is different O2 use depending on the supply of energy for the ATP demand.
Summary . Intensity zones based on a lactate step test and on wattage are an easy fast way to do, but have no merit what's however on teh real effort of this clients during a period of training sessions,as in each session the values will be very different.
take intebnsity 6 on te first curve from the left and move to teh same pyruvate levl on teh last curve and see teh difference in VO2 use.
If you take teh situatiion that teh majority of people you will test have somewhere of 3 to 4 l/ min O2 and you see here a differcnec in teh same person fo 1 l O2 = 25 % differnce than you see where teh person with a MAP of 400 suddently will be by this fluctuation ( 20 % ) difference. Now this are the same people discussing validation of top equipment but never "validate" the athelet.
When we add differences in hydration to a test situation , where cardiac hemodynamic is influenced as well, than we see, how little values zoning are based on wattage and lactate alone. Certainly , when we use lactate as absolute values.