| Author | Message | ||
     Thomsen Member Username: Thomsen Post Number: 15 Registered: 02-2008 |
Hi Juerg, From time to time throughout the year I experience bouts of tachycardia. Today I was running easy around a trail here in Yellowknife, with my HR around 140 for the first part of the run (LBP is 170+). As I started to run some of the off-road sections of the trail, my HR rose to 150-155. I maintained the same perceived effort and breathing rate and soon it was 197 bpm (the highest I've seen it is 198bpm). I double checked by feeling my pulse. I slowed down and it dipped down towards 180 but as long as I was jogging easy it wouldn't go back down to a normal rate. I stood still for a few minutes and it wouldn't drop below 140. I squatted down on my heels and this seemed to relieve the pressure on my heart and my HR dropped to 90. I started running again after this and my HR was fine for the remaining 30min of my 1hr run. HR in the neighbourhood of 140 bpm @ 12 kph. I even ran at LBP-5 for 5 minutes @ 15-16 kph towards the end of the run and everything appeared normal. Any insight into what may have happened? Seems like something might be wrong with the electrical wiring, hmmm. I had done a 3 hr ride the previous evening, HR of LBP-20. Maybe my heart was still tired? Any help is much appreciated. I got an ECG a few weeks ago and was informed I should set up a treadmill stress test. Thanks, Thomsen | ||
| Andrew Senior Member Username: Andrew Post Number: 229 Registered: 04-2006 |
This situation is very similar to what we saw in another young BPR athlete, who was diagnosed with "exercise induced tachycardia". This is not the regular sinus tachycardia that occurs in most people during exercise, but stems from an aberrant group of cells firing signals independently from the regular sino-atrial node. We picked up this abnormal rhythm using the Bioharness, and referred him to a cardiologist who confirmed our suspicions. We are currently waiting for a second electrophysiologist to consider an ablation technique to correct the issue. It is important for you to have the recommended stress test, and to have someone knowledgeable regarding your training view the results. There are other potential causes that should be considered, that also can be ruled out during a stress test. Let us know how it goes. | ||
| Juerg Senior Member Username: Juerg Post Number: 1566 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thommson and Andrew, Thanks for this interesting info. This very special topic was one of the discussions in Seattle and here juts a short add on for readers google for this above symptoms. One of teh classical explanations you will get is the problem, that by this high HR the "filling time " of teh heart is too short and therefor there will be a lack of O2 moving into the body. The above explained HR levels from Thompson are not really that high yet. They are high but there are many people running and competing over hours with similar high HR. The discussion was,: Is it really a problem of filling time or rather a problem of contraction time. If the heart rate is that high but there is no adjustment of cardiac contraction time , than we have a very long contracted heart muscles, which could actually lead to some hypoxic problems. Here some number games. HR 150 LVET 200 ms ( this is as we see a very common situation so CCT is 30 sec. Now if there is a sudden increase ( unknown reason ) of HR up to 200 but the LVET will not follow and stayed by 200 instead of dropping. We had a young kid tested where HR was close to 200 but LVET was below 150 ms so still felt good as CCT was below 30. So HR 200 and LVET 200 you look at 40 sec CCT so a very long time with no blood flow to the heart muscle itself. In none of all our tests so far did we ever saw a CCT of 40 sec. Highest so far 36 sec. So the discussion was, that besides a ECG where people could see potential "problems on the "electric " function, there should be as well a test done at the same time , where you can see potential hemodynamic reactions during a situation like that. We start now to as well check hemodynamic in the people by using the Physio Flow of the computer in the stand alone mode and the datas can be stored during a 6 hour event and than recalled after a workout to see, what happened during a training. We will try to offer some data's as soon we have enough experience with this part as well. | ||
| Andrew Senior Member Username: Andrew Post Number: 230 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thanks for the feedback Juerg. Remember, this is the exact case of a young athlete I have asked you to assess with Physioflow for this precise reason. He is "able" to raise his HR to over 200, wile he still feels in control. It is the result of an abnormal pacemaker, but it might not be damaging to the heart itself, if the CCT is controlled, and he is able to control the other parameters that might lead to cell damage. The last time I asked, you refused to test him, due to lack of experience with the new unit you were trying. I would be happy if you would reconsider this position owing to your current level of work with the physioflow, and help us find some answers to the questions we are asking. His current "training" is focusing on controling his "regular" rhythm below HR of 130 beats per minute, where he does not stimulate the secondary pacemaker. We would like to consider his CCT both when he is in sinus tachycardia, and also when he becomes tachycardic from his secondary pacemaker. I believe his CCT does not elevate over 30seconds/minute until he reaches HR over 210, based on his perceived exertion, resp rate, and LBP. Adding the physioflow information would certainly clarify this discussion. | ||
| Juerg Senior Member Username: Juerg Post Number: 1573 Registered: 04-2006 |
As the regular reader can see in this short thread ,there are many more athletes and fitness people out there, who experience some interesting cardiac reaction , which in most cases can't be explained yet, or which are difficult to assess in many testing labs and other similar set ups. There is a very interesting story on www. cyclingnews.com of an "middle age" endurance athlete , who experiences AF ( atrial fibrillation) and another person with heart ectopia . Interesting is this, as this seem to be not as uncommon as many think , and there is some major discussion going on, whether years of high volumes and intensity of endurance training will have a higher risk on this specific cardiac situations, with some expert putting a 30 % higher risk of potential AF in the later part of a live of a endurance athletes. The reasons why are not clearly understood. As in the 2 above cases , we had some interesting cases here in our clinic as well.We to try to get a better grip on the use and ability of the Physio Flow in a sport testing setting. Thanks to the ongoing research and communication with Frank Bour and his Dad Dr. Jean Bour in France we slowly getting somewhat better in the understanding of the ability of the physio flow , but as well on the limitation we still face, in assessing live active people in different disciplines. As Andrew mentioned in the above thread, the two cases would be of some very nice interest , as soon some current institutions and sport specialists are ready to integrate live hemodynamic ( physio flow )in their assessment tools. We are hoping , that with the start in Ontario by the Ontario center for sport , we are a major step forward to the situation , that young and older athletes have the possibility to get tested not just for lactate and VO2 max , but as well have get a clear window to their hemodynamic reactions during a step test. We from FaCT - Canada keep working and trying to find new and exiting tools , which can be integrated into a better understanding of the physiological reactions during sport activity , but as well as individual assessments for coaches and athletes. I hope , that in the near future some coaches and or test centers in BC will make this step forward as well ,so that athletes have the ability to get tested by professional people , who have the education and knowledge to give the athlete some valuable inside into their ability and aproper intensity and progress control for their workouts. We have daily request from very different parts of north America for tests, but we are not a test center at all but a small company , for high performance equipment and as we search for different new ideas ,we as well like to test the equipment before we take it into our program. It is after that ,up to the practical coaches and institution to decide, whether the ideas are up to the task and an addition to the existing equipment and traditional ideas or not. The big interest in our small contribution in new testing tools and ideas shows, that there is a growing market out there and the forward looking centers already see, that the people will show up for this type of testing. So people interested in any kind of testing , whether this is traditional 2 and 4 mmol lactate testing , VO2 max testing or any other test idea with the equipment you see on our Website can contact NOC - Centers as this are Center, which have the same testing tools and can therefor compare and share the data's, if they like to do so. So check once in a while our updated NOC center page for possibility for testing close to where you are. Juerg |