| Author | Message | ||
     Juerg Moderator Username: Juerg Post Number: 3346 Registered: 04-2006 |
There is an increase in interested people with questions on use of Spiro Tiger in North America. The reality is, that Spiro Tiger is an integrated training tool in europe for high performance but as well for average people on the street. Sports like Ice Hockey , extreme fighting and many other sports like Cross fit workouts relay on SpiroTiger as the choice for respiratory workout possibilities. Here a short overview of some You tube in-formations for north American people to look at . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hryUTSG0Z uU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BOyqWsVm Gw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEsgqoMLj y8&NR=1 | ||
| Holman325 Senior Member Username: Holman325 Post Number: 114 Registered: 11-2009 |
Juerg, My thoghts on these videos on the SpiroTiger use is this... These athletes are not using the device in an appropriate technique. Am I wrong? Looking at details like the bag filling, the raising of the arms, the "force" of the breathing, all looks off. Interesting shots of the functional training with the device using the swiss ball, and therabands. But what are the benefits of the bands in second video at about 22 and 23 seconds? Why do the athletes raise their arms, and appear to be breathing so forcefull? There is no demonstration of use of the Bioharness, would that be beneficial for these subjects? Using the device in "recoveries" between sets in a crossfit session to unload Co2 and use in a Hypo and then Hypercapnic situations could help in improving the performance in the next set. Yes / No? Thanks for the post. Interesting applications, and open ideas for work with the Olympic boxer I am helping out. Is there possibility or application for Powerlung for some "strength" (functional) training? | ||
| Stephentoddneal Advanced Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2007 |
I have been using the spiro during recovery both on the bike and for crossfit (interesting to see this pop up on here) I find that off the bike it is much easier. Depending on the crossfit movements that are being done ... the respiration rate and volume seems to be quite high (I am going to do a crossfit circuit on the fitmate to get some numbers) but I find that I need to recover somewhat off the circuit (about 60 seconds) before I can start spiro. On the bike I can often get right on the spiro and get under control. Just a few thoughts. | ||
| Holman325 Senior Member Username: Holman325 Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2009 |
This thread could get interesting with some info from Steve. Integrating the Bioharness would also help to get an idea of postural situation in addition to the Fitmate data. Have you experimented with Hypo-Capnic and trying to sync up the RF to be the same as you are doing during the CF sessions for recovering in the circuit? I haven't experienced CF session, so please excuse my ignorance to the finer details of the W/O's and movements. It will be interesting to see a live situation that can be affected for the person's of interest from what Juerg is proposing, not elite athletes, but people interested in taking a unique approach to personal development. Kudo's to this idea. | ||
| Stephentoddneal Advanced Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2007 |
I will try and attempt something this week. I didn't have much luck using bioharness with many of the movements...RF was way off as compared to actual. The movements all happen around 85/95 movements per minute and are mostly full body...so from bottom of squat to overhead as an example...or throwing a ball from squat to overhead... If you can help me understand the different situations (I am never very good with some of the words -- hypo - capnic ) that may help me answer better. I will gather FVC...and fitmate data for a 4 min workout ... and post here ... then we can discuss. I just know that I find it really hard to jump right on spiro after some of these sessions as I am breathing like crazy!! harder than ever on a bike ... Let me know if anyone has ideas they would like me to try | ||
| Daniel Senior Member Username: Daniel Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2008 |
Interesting posts. I am a Crossfit Instructor and never really thought of using it between sets. May be a negative effect on your overall load each workout - would be interesting to see the benefits of separating the workouts and comparing results. I am just starting with my Spirotiger - would appreciate any CURRENT recommendations on Spirotiger prescription including the processes and theory (warm up - bag selection - reps/sets/work:rest ratios - frequency - intensity - RR selection and well as the length of each session) I have several clients with respiratory limitations on Fitmate testing and FVC6 <6 and FVC1/FVC6 < 70% and would like to start them off with training sessions on Spirotiger. | ||
| Holman325 Senior Member Username: Holman325 Post Number: 116 Registered: 11-2009 |
I think that a lot of the parameters for the training would come from the Fitmate data, as we outlined last November when you were in the course. Juerg has posted ideas for training startup in this Spirotiger section of the forum. Really it is up to you to identify what training you want to do, and areas to focus on. Each client will have their own specific limitation. The programs need to be taillored to them, individually. Training should be based on the individuals needs. Initial training should be directed towards coordination / orientation to breathing with the device. Timing and depth are important as you may know having probably played around with it, I presume. once they get the swing of it, then they can start to make increases in difficulties, either RF, or TV/bag size, and duration of training. It is recommended to ensure that they breathe with only the bar in the middle (or bargraph in the centre) so that they are breathing normocapnic. Only in specific situations you can then integrate Hypocapnic or hypercapnic situations by over breathing or underbreathing with respect to depth of TV. To jump back one post, Hyper-Capnia means Increased Carbon Dioxide, subsequently Hypo-Capnia means Low Carbon Dioxide. To identify when you enter into each of these situations on the new Smart SpiroTiger, for a Hypercapnia you would be breathing with the two arrows on the bottom of the bar (pointing up). For Hypocapnia you would be breathing with the two arrows on the top of the bar (pointing down). If you push the boundries of the alarm you will get the arrows and the bar to flash and you will hear a beep for the cadence, and a double beep signifying the upper alarm. On the SpiroTiger software you get three arrows in either of the Hyper or Hypo situations. If the client does not modify their depth, then the device goes into alarm state as the safety mechanism. I won't get into the applications for Hyper or Hypo capnia, as Juerg (and others)has done this on a number of occasions. This enters the end of my understanding of when to apply and when not to apply hyper or hypo capnia, save for simulating IHT by way of Hypercapnia, but I am also using the EMMA capnometer to ensure upper and lower ranges for alarm ranges, and I record these numbers with each IHT session. Juerg points out shifting O2 dissociation curve, and I am still trying to understand this principle, and i think that without having the Portamon it isn't really an experiment to play with. Without being able to see the tissue response for the client, it is almost a disservice. I suppose doing IHT is almost a similar situation without the Portamon. This sounds like an interesting thread we have developed. I can't wait to see where it goes, and some of the real life situations you get Steve from a typical Crossfit workout. | ||
| Peterg Senior Member Username: Peterg Post Number: 48 Registered: 03-2008 |
Wow may need to rethink how hard we 'go' on the spiro ! Seems like they are using it more as a power lung in the case of Homar and Nihito Steve let me know if you need another set of hands | ||
| Andrew Senior Member Username: Andrew Post Number: 511 Registered: 04-2006 |
GREAT discussions, and really fun to hear from the crew out in Ontario regarding their experience with Spiro and working it into Crossfit sessions. What a fantastic way to add respiratory training/challenge to a great overall strength/coordination/movement pattern exercise. Stephen's question regarding the ability to use Spiro immediately following a 4 minute Crossfit set, compared to a cycling type exercise, with much less muscle mass being utilized, brings us back to a discussion that Juerg wrote a fantastic response to when I asked about possible causes of trouble I experienced in first utilizing Spiro during swim sets. I won't try to restate the great ideas that Juerg suggested as an explanation here. However, the incredible high CO2 being produced with whole body strength sets will make breathing with the Spiro VERY difficult, as it will not allow you to equilibrate back to a normocapneic situation easily. There, is in fact a danger in doing this without watching carefully for signs of hypercapnea, and paying very close attention to your body. But as an added safety precaution, I would also advise only attempting this if you have access to a pulse oximeter, which will in some cases show dramatic drops when using Spiro in this situation. I remember demonstrating to a group of doctors in Quesnel a set of 10 "burpees", which is basically a standing high jump followed by a drop to plank position, jump to hand supported tuck position on the ground, back up to standing and jumping again. After 10 reps, of all out effort, followed immediately by Spiro, my sats would drop as low as 75%. The theory at the time being we had created so much CO2 during the exercise, we actually displaced the O2 being carried on the Hb molecule. It would be interesting to repeat this test with the aid of Portamon data, and the new CO2 monitor being used by John and Chris, who have worked out a great way to include it in-line with the Spiro-Tiger to help maintain safe levels of CO2 during these kinds of workouts. Hopefully, Stephen and John who live fairly close together can have a few "experimental" sessions together, and we can all meet up soon with Juerg for some help in finding some more clear answers...can I suggest meeting in J.Tree in February? | ||
| Stephentoddneal Senior Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2007 |
Thanks Andrew...I have always used my spo2 and could never get on spire ... as mentioned I would recover for about a minute and then be ok and be able to use just like during bike intervals. Daniel - I think you need to decide how you feel you can make your crossfit athletes fitter in the domain you feel important. Myself I use recovery between rounds somedays...steady rounds for time somedays...respiratory training for recovery somedays. You will need to experiment and find out what works for each person. I can tell you that last year (a few months before Christmas) I took my FVC from 3.55 to 5.99 through training with spire. I have found that I can keep my times in WODS the same as training quite hard with Crossfit by focusing on max strength - quality spiro sessions - and a variety of other training. When asked to go hard in a WOD my breathing is always controllable -- I do warmup with spiro before any hard WOD...that is very beneficial for me. (I am asthmatic) Peter -- I may take you up on the help...the workouts I want to try might be better with someone holding fit mate rather than back pack. Thanks Everyone, Steve } | ||
| Andrew Senior Member Username: Andrew Post Number: 512 Registered: 04-2006 |
Steve, I do believe there is a benefit to doing the Spiro right after a set, rather than waiting the minute for recovery first. I found a very dramatic functional change in my ability to tolerate these sets when I first started using Spiro during swim sets. I am now able to begin difficult Spiro work immediately upon completion of some challenging 100m-200m swim with no perceived "shortness of breath" or desaturation. I am not sure exactly the changes that have taken place, whether it is a better buffering ability or an upregulation of enzymes responsible for the balancing between metabolic acidosis from swimming to the added relative respiratory acidosis of Spiro. These sessions have opened up a whole new can of questions that I have not considered since I first had played with the unit in the OR in Quesnel with Juerg. The main reasons I began playing with the Spiro at the pool was 1) to improve an issue I had felt in my own races, most notably at Xterra Canmore (one of the few races in Canada at altitude) and 2) to help get more out of swim sessions where many athletes are forced to spend a fair bit of their "workout" sitting at the wall waiting for the second hand to go around, until they begin their next interval. This is unfortunately a function of the limited pool space provided to competitive and Masters swimmers, in an attempt by the coach to maintain some sort of control over the distance and intensity of any given workout. I prefer to do the sessions on my own at my own controlled pace. But logistics have me in the water, sharing a lane with 6 other people, and this gives me the opportunity to play with ways of getting more "training" into a pre-designed swim set that is "one size fits all". | ||
| Stephentoddneal Senior Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2007 |
Thanks Andrew, Off the bike I have an idea of the demands from riding on fitmate and then getting on spiro to do interval... I think that testing a circuit will allow me the same comfort level and give me a goal. Do you have any other suggestions...how did you accomplish the higher demand with your swim intervals? | ||
| Andrew Senior Member Username: Andrew Post Number: 513 Registered: 04-2006 |
The only advice I can give, is to start with really easy bag size that allows extra "fresh" airflow to be able to maintain normocapnea. That is where the new capnometer, and the little system John Holman set up for safety would be of benefit in this situation. The one problem, is the unit will alarm fairly quickly as it thinks you are "overbreathing" the unit. But given just a few sessions, you can tolerate more and more "normal" breathing patterns without any difficulty at all. Let me know how it goes. | ||
| Daniel Senior Member Username: Daniel Post Number: 27 Registered: 05-2008 |
thanks everyone John - didn't attend the course in November - heard it was great - was in Vernon with Juerg, Andrew, Chris and Graham et al -appreciate the importance isolating the respiratory limitations through the use of the Fitmate data...the question is how do you amalgamate the FVC data and the Fitmate data into your initial prescription- I will go back in the string to pick up Juergs recommendations - unfortunately, we only had time for a cursory overview of the Sportiger in Vernon. Peter/Andrew - thanks for sharing your experiences - I have two perfect candidates with clear respiratory limitations - I want to ensure I maximize the effectiveness of our initial sessions - so looking for an initial prescription method Want to start testing junior rowers and paddlers here - extremely big in Halifax - any ideas on testing (thinking ergonomic first) and training (they aren't using heart rate monitors or being tested at this point - have no standard cadences nor any method to determine power) I appreciate all the input and will do what all of you recommend the most - use it more | ||
| Stephentoddneal Senior Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2007 |
Not sure if first post didn't work so here it is again if it did. Workout: Deadlift (not recorded in fit mate) 5x180 3x220 3x260 3x300 3x320 5x330 10 min rest 8 x 20 sec ON / 10 sec OFF Wall Ball + Renegade Row 2 min rest 8 x 20 sec ON / 10 sec OFF Airdyne + Push Press Wall Ball - squat with 20 pound ball held at chest, stand and throw to 12 foot target, catch and repeat Renegade row - pushup position on 30 pound dumbbell, row one at a time to rib cage, no rotation at the hip Airdyne - hand and leg bicycle Push Press - barbell press to overhead from shoulder height, 75 pounds  | ||
| Stephentoddneal Senior Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2007 |
So: end of first set: ve about 133 (rf 46 x tv 2.9) end of second set: ve about 157.5 (rf 63 x tv 2.5) After first set :: If I went with Andrew suggestion and used a smaller bag ... say 2.5 -- I would need respiration rate of 53 (133 / 2.5) to equal respiration being done at that time...so likely even higher to have spo2 climb and over-breath. I will do a ramp test on the 2.5 to see if I am capable of this. I have found that in the past I find it easier to use the larger bag during recovery to stay on top of the breathing ... keep it controlled and over-breath. Are these similar to others findings when using during the recovery phase and over-breathing? | ||
| Juerg Moderator Username: Juerg Post Number: 3352 Registered: 04-2006 |
Question: What bag size was used by the 133 ( rf 46 x tv2.9 ) and the next set by 157.5 (rf 63 x tv 2.5). it seems confusing as the suggestion below is : use a smaller bag 2.5 L. Thanks for the interesting discussion here. I will try over the weekend to give some overview on ideas and risks involved in this different workouts. Remember: The Spiro Tiger was researched and the safe guards are in place only for respiration at rest and in standing position. All other ideas are not in the intension of the Spiro Tiger producer, nor are they save, if not used in combination with a pCO2 test system during the workouts. SpO2 does not give always a proper information as there is a lag behind its reaction. So to the many readers mailing me: I will sent you individually the information concerning safety and use of the spirotiger. This ongoing discussion is pushing limits far outside the borders of a suggested use of Spiro Tiger. We use the equipment in this directions but only in combination with observations on pCO2 ( capnometer and SpO2 ( oxymeter and direct info on oxygenation intramuscular as well as the reaction the incredible shift in pCO2 has on cardiac reactions so we have a Physio flow running at the same time. FaCT- Canada nor the IP Spiro Tiger competency centers take any responsability for use of Spiro Tiger in this way nor does we recommend this type of workouts without the above control equipement in place. | ||
| Stephentoddneal Senior Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hello Juerg, Sorry I wasn't clear. There was NO spiro used during that workout at all. That was just a workout done with overall body movements to get some data on fit mate ... to then look at possibilities in using spiro as recovery between such bouts of exercise. So the calculations were taken from actual data recorded on fit mate. Hope that makes sense now. | ||
| Juerg Moderator Username: Juerg Post Number: 3354 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thanks for the clarifications. I thought that was the case but was not sure. So here why. If people now use a 2.5 liter bag like in the example 53 ( 133/ 2.5) with a spirotiger , than they really do not have to breath 53 x / min but rather only 41 x to maintain a healthy pCO2. So really not that bad of a challenge, when using just the respiratory system. In fact if they would breath 53 x with the 2.5 liter bag than they would move far more air than even the highest in a set like the one above. The part which is important to understand is, that recovery means recovery, so the question is, what we like to recover by using the Spiro tiger as a tool in between sets or whether we use the Spiro tiger to stimulate an additional response on a very different system like oxygenation or buffering ability . Here the reason why SpO2 has to be taken only as a combination with pCO2 , if we like to have a proper idea on what we really try to accomplish.  | ||
| Juerg Moderator Username: Juerg Post Number: 3355 Registered: 04-2006 |
Here a start to some information's concerning spiroTiger. Here a short inside view in the IP handout and an explanation of the respiratory involvement , when using the body on different performance levels.The handout is a part of the IP Spiro Tiger competency training.  As you can see, there is a clear shift in O2 use from rest to a higher intensity. The change has some direct influence in the way the different muscles ( heart , respiration and working skeletal muscles )will use O2 on the one side, but as well will contribute to the CO2 production on the other side. The calculations used in the steering of the safe guards in the Spiro Tiger took this all in account . So as soon we move out of this calculated information and add either more skeletal muscles to a respiratory workout with the spiro Tiger and or we start with a miss-match of CO2 / O2 ratio , we have no information or safe guard anymore with the spiro Tiger set up. So to actually know what is going on we have to add a pCO2 sensor and a Sp O2 sensor to a device, where we would re-breath air. This basically was the idea prior to the setup of a Spiro Tiger. | ||
| Stephentoddneal Senior Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2007 |
Speaking only about my own use of spiro. I basically use it during workouts as warmup...and recovery between sets or intervals. I do this in such a manner as to use it as if I was using it at outside of a workout. I take resting spo2 before I start a workout ... lets say its 97. Then if I use for recovery between sets or intervals ... and spo2 drops to say 95 ... I start to use spiro and make sure the spo2 responds immediately and that I feel comfortable. This almost feels like just doing spiro by itself to me...and I use this as an opportunity to get in time on spiro due to my limited amount of time to train. I don't have the confidence and education in all the different uses for intervention so I try and stick to the basics and do a good job. A few months before Christmas 2010 my FVC was 3.98 ... through 3x a week using this manner it was 5.99 and has remained between 5.6 and 5.99 since then. | ||
| Juerg Moderator Username: Juerg Post Number: 3356 Registered: 04-2006 |
Now , when we start moving CO2 levels it seems to be important to know the level; and as well the reactions CO2 resp. hyper - or hypocapnia may have on different systems.(brain , heart, vascular systems but as well and possibly very important in the shift in electrolytes. One of the better and still accepted studies was done by : "A Comparison of the Physiological Effects of Hypercapnia and Hypoxia in the Production of Cardiac Arrest *" George H. A. Clowes, Jr., A. L. Hopkins, and Fiorindo A. Simeone In simple terms: Respiratory intervention can change different reactions in different systems. In sport this is crucial, as the change in electrolytes can take part during a workout , heat, sweating , nutritional manipulation with electrolyte intake and so on. So as we have a longer workout : 1 hour and more, we may have a shift in electrolytes. This than combined with some respiratory interventions can create some very interesting reactions from muscle cramps down to black outs. The full chain of events are not so clear yet. There is a strong er believe than in the past, that the central regulation may actually do the extreme versions, by simply taking you out , before bigger damage is done. Reactions like dys-balance of Mg Na and Ca combined with some respiratory intervention may in fact influence feedback loops to the central systems. Shifts from respiration can shift this electrolytes and change the behaviour of muscle contractions and with it the demand of O2. Example: In long military events like 100 km walks there is a nicely demonstrated information from the Swiss army, where due to change in respiratory pattern from normocapnic to hypocapnic muscle cramps can show you due to shift in magnesium but as well as in calcium. The interesting part is, that one of the most practical used studies where done, using respiration as a bio marker , rather than lactate. The study was done in honour of W. Hollmann, one of the worlds leading exercise researcher. His students made a big study. Summary: Respiration rate during running is going the opposite than lactate. 4 steps in 4 steps out is 2 mmol lactate ( 2 steps in 2 steps out is 4 mmol lactate in very simple terms. So if you run 4 / 4 you can run very long, if you run 2 / 2 you will be out of action pretty fast. You will use in a 2 / 2 mainly glucose and you will see lactate showing up. There are different reactions here. 4 / 4 will create more CO2 (more likely FFA supply) as the O2 diss-curve moves to the right. 2/2 will create less CO2 more likely low CO2 so O2 diss curve moves to the left. This will create less optimal O2 supply ( see NIRS data ) and with this a more likely demand of Glucose. In long walks ,like explained above glucose levels will be already low. Electrolytes will be already low and now you add with a hypocapnic situation an additional shift to both of this demands and you are more likely to see cramps and collapse. The most single and most simple test we had to do was either a Chvostek or a Trousseau sign and we had the info , whether it was an electrolyte reason for the collapse or cramp ( Hypocalcemia and or hypo Mg ) These are two of the simple tests ( signs) in every handbook for a military first aid soldier and unfortunately are completely lost this days in the information of helpers in endurance events. Here a short part of the hypercapnic reactions on electrolytes.  Now in hypocapnic situation , we see the opposite . Just something to think about when we start playing on extreme ideas and respiratory manipulations. | ||
| Andrew Senior Member Username: Andrew Post Number: 514 Registered: 04-2006 |
One of the things about the study done by Hollmann's students was that they were looking at the "natural" breathing patterns of runners, and not asking them to change their breathing pattern consciously. Rather, they were looking at how the body naturally increases respiration rate to match the, what we assume is the natural rise in CO2 with increased metabolic expenditure. We have witnessed this switch to higher respiration in nearly every tested athlete who has NOT done Spiro training. In those who have done specific respiratory endurance training, the shifts are not as obvious, and in most cases can be manipulated even at or above LBP. Hence, one of the reasons Juerg is now questioning the value of LBP as a consistent marker for physiologic changes. The more an individual has control over the respiration, the more tehy are able to control many of the other physiologic systems and biomarkers; from cardiac output, to vascular resistance, to electrolyte balance and pH. All can be altered by changing respiration IF the athlete has that ability. Interestingly enough, a recent case study proves Juerg's point very well. Using a similar breathing pattern that has been successful in the past, led to a total body melt down and failure at Ironman World Championships this past week-end. It may in fact be a result of the BETTER respiratory system developed during the past 8 weeks of training. In the past, the switch to 2:2 breathing and increased running speed over the closing 10km of the marathon may have kept everything in balance. However, with improved respiratory function, and improved lung volumes, the new 2:2 pattern may have forced the athlete to be relatively hypocapneic, leading to imbalances and allowing for faster running, which ultimately lead to an increase in body temperature which was ultimately not sustainable. Certainly more questions than answers, and a truly humbling learning experience. | ||
| Marcel Senior Member Username: Marcel Post Number: 47 Registered: 04-2010 |
Hollmann - You mention that you use your capnometer to monitor IHT sessions. Have you used the capnometer for other sessions without Spirotiger, so say LBP or endurance session, what trends do you look for, is the device stable enough to use while you say run or bike without interferance from the elements? Would be nice to hear your experiences as there is very little, well, no literature outside of this forum for capnometer use in athletes for monitoring bio-markers. | ||
| Holman325 Senior Member Username: Holman325 Post Number: 118 Registered: 11-2009 |
Hello Marcel, I have not used the EMMA with sessions other that SpiroTiger, but this is an interesting idea. I am not sure what responses will come of it. Integration would be very easy by using a mask from the Fitmate, FaCT Canada has these masks and neoprene head straps. would need a 90 deg elbow to connect from the mask and reduce down to the fitting on the EMMA, and I would think would be fairly stable, depending on your activity. With you in XC ski, it should be fairly stable. The way I understand the EMMA to work is by infrared analysis of the expired gases. I'm not totally familiar with how it determines inhalation vs. exhalation. Perhaps Juerg or Herb can provide further insight on the technical details. What trends would you see relating to LBP? having a baseline from a LBP assessment would give some insight. Can you use this for training intensities, possibly, but I would imagine integration of additional muscle groups would change values or trends to some extent which could complicate issues. I wonder how altitude would affect the EtCo2 values as well? Anyone else care to theorize on the value of integrating this meteric into training intensity profiles? Steve, your trial is very interesting. to refer back it would be good to see what you RF's and TV's would have been as your baseline and see the changes. Still only utilizing about 50% TV of your total FvC. My observation (and only that from looking at values and trends) would be towards a minor limitation with your recovery of TV's back to previous max efforts. Muscular fatigue from the exercises? your insight is very valueable in this analysis (observations, feelings, technique, etc...). From a coordination perspective you look very well coordinated, 64 RF and 2.5L TV, and could be an adaptation from nearly 1 year of consistent ST work. Perhaps you have not stressed the TV aspect by moving up; to a slightly larger bag. I'm not sure, just speculation. May be an opportunity to try using a larger bag volume, and build up in RF, then repeat. I do not know what progression you have done, and you may have already done this. There may be a new level that you can move to. Who know's but there are some interesting questions to ask. Just some brief thoughts, but the Crossfit workouts are a different beast than an endurance event. | ||
| Chriswillettpt New member Username: Chriswillettpt Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2008 |
HI Guys, Some great info and interesting ideas. I have been using the EMMA for a little over 6 months now and had some really interesting trends crop up. If during testing I see a shift in CO2 tolerance prior to LBP I have been doing some work with athletes using EMMA during workouts. I do a step test ensuring that ETCO2 continues to climb (or holds steady), as soon as we see a decline we regress and step and try to add a respiratory intervention to maintain levels. We then continue the intervention while starting to increase load again. I also use it on the road with cyclists - running is a little hard to use due to impact forces for prolonged periods of time. I use this more as an interest point now, maybe to see if manipulation can occur with various respiratory patterns and see if there is any subjective performance benefit for the athlete. I am still really in the infancy of using this product in this way, but it is cool to see and talk about with an athlete. While on the road I rig up a 90 degree elbow and straight silicone mouthpiece. The athlete holds the mouthpiece in their mouth and they can see it in front of their face. Not pretty but effective. I hook up a lanyard so the unit sits inside the jersey while not being used. The only issue with this is how battery hungry the EMMA is - I can only get in a couple of rides like this before batteries are flat. | ||
| Stephentoddneal Senior Member Username: Stephentoddneal Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hello, John - I will do a bike test this week or early next to look at my TV on the bike. This was the first circuit (crossfit) workout I used Fitmate for. I feel that the holding of breath every rep (which is necessary at certain phases of each movement) likely throws off some of that data. Each movement can take about 1 to 3 seconds to perform 1 rep -- and during that time the breath is held at some point. Thanks for reading and sharing. Steve |